Education Bill passes, but corporal punishment on hold
Patrick Faber
It was a busy day in Belmopan today. Teachers demonstrated outside the National Assembly, while inside the parliamentarians went head to head over the Education and Training Bill. The contentious article in the bill deals with corporal punishment. And while it will not come into effect immediately, the B.N.T.U. had asked for a delay to consider options to ensure discipline in schools. A task force is expected to come up with an alternative to corporal punishment over the next few months. News Five starts with a report from inside the house where all parliamentarians were present and according to one former minister, there were amendments made to the bill, even up to the eve of the meeting of the House of Representatives. While the teachers waited until two p.m. for Education Minister Patrick Faber to come outside, he never did. So after taking some jabs at George Frazer, the B.N.T.U.’s Executive Secretary, Faber decided to go after former Minister of Education Cordel Hyde. Hyde has not been very vocal in the house, but he chastised Faber when the teachers couldn’t.
Patrick Faber, Minister of Education
“If Mr. Frazer would want to be honest with you, Mr. Speaker, and honest with the Belizean people, he would tell you that the reason why that committee was never formed at that time, the membership was never named, was because at the time the union said we want more consultation even after the bill was introduced to the Cabinet and the ministry, Mr. Speaker, worked with them. There is a serious faction of the union that is not with their leaders when they talk about we agree with the removal of corporal punishment but we want to see alternatives you know. There is a serious faction. I know; I have toured this country, I have met with teachers in every single district and town in this country and I have heard them say that we want to keep corporal punishment. It is no dream in my head that there was a scholarship scandal in the Ministry of Education under Cordel Hyde. I didn’t dream that up. You don’t like to know the truth but tek it easy man, tek it easy. I didn’t dream that up. Mr. Speaker, you see they like to stir the pot but they can’t handle the heat. So I am not hiding from the teachers.”
Cordel Hyde, Former Minister of Education
Cordel Hyde
“If you listen to the Minister of Education, you get the impression as if though dehn thousand plus teachers outside are crazy. Dehn noh know weh dehn di protest against, dehn noh have no reason fi go off. If yoh listen to he dat dah di impression weh he give. Now one thousand teachers can’t change dehn mind? Dehn can’t agree wid you six months before and then now when it comes down to it and dehn si exactly weh deh inna di bill, dehn can’t change fi dehn mind? Weh give you di right fi change your mind but dehn can’t change fi dehn mind? You know how much time you change your mind between last week Thursday and this afternoon inna di House? You know how many time? Your technical team wasn’t even prepared fi come dah di House committee meeting last week Thursday fi defend the bill. Dah dehn start dis, I no mi di pick pan nobody. I mi di mind mi own business, yoh understand; I just begin now. With your permission, Mr. Speaker, may I refer to my notes or perhaps I should ask the member of Collet if I can read from my notes because perhaps the Minster of Education should read more or refer to his notes some more so he puts his feet in his mouth less, you understand. Just ask the teachers out deh if unu believe weh I di tell unu.”
Patrick Faber
“Standing orders of this House are very clear so if he is going to read he might as well sit down. You can refer to your notes. We have been very kind and polite to allow the member for Albert who obviously, as the prime minister explained, cannot—the standing orders govern. The standing orders are clear that you cannot read; you can refer to your notes. So if yoh wah read just sit down man.”
Cordel Hyde
“Di standing orders are very clear dat if di Speaker gives permission you can read your speech.
Patrick Faber
“In fact Mister Speaker it pains me some of the remarks they are shouting out there as I look through the window Mr. Speaker because I am not here to quarrel with them. We are here to better this education system, that is the bottom line.”
Cordel Hyde
“A little while ago he was on the verge of tearing up again—I don’t know what’s the issue there, I don’t know if it’s a performance or it’s the emotion of the times or if it’s him being genuine. I really don’t know but I won’t question his motives, I will deal with the issues here. This so called reform in education, this teaching services commission was all inspired, all driven, all in response to a demand by the IDB in exchange for a social sector loan. A precondition we have to meet or else we are not going to get the money plain and simple. So despite the fact that the Belize National Teacher’s Union, the biggest union by far in our country, the people who would be most affected by this bill, were calling for a short delay in the second reading of this bill, the minister felt that he had to ignore them and bring back for a second reading a very sloppy bill if I may add. What we have is a bill that will see the teaching services commission merely do a task that was previously assigned to the chief education officer; nothing more and nothing less. The commission would only make sure that the denominational managements dot the I’s and cross the T’s as they hire, transfer, discipline or terminate teachers. That’s it. If you are going to abolish corporal punishment in our classrooms, you better have a plethora of what are the alternatives and you have to have that on the ready; not six months from now. I neva try to abolish to corporal punishment but you’re trying to do it so you’re the one who is supposed to have the plethora of alternatives. In fact, you better have those alternatives before you do away with corporal punishment.”
. What “corporal punishment” means: “Corporal punishment is defined under human-rights law as “any punishment in which physical force is used and intended to cause some degree of pain or discomfort.” No wonder must Belizean students drop out of School. Mr. Cordel Hyde can you speak English so I can understand what you are saying. Thank you
your so right mr hyde. what kinds of discipline will be taught in the classroom. time-out. that doesn’t work in America how the hell will it work in Belize?
While I stand in Solidarity with our Teachers and all Unions , I am against the use of Corporal Punishment in our Education system. Perhaps if the Govt. would support our Teachers more
through different mediums, such as Higher Wages, More Scholarships to foreign Universities,
Modern and updated Libraries, etc, our educators would not have to vent their frustrations on
our students. Recognizing that in our schools there are all the different classes of our community
represented through our kids, it is without a doubt that the kids from the poor class is on the harshest end of the Corporal Punishment Spectrum. Teachers who are more educated and in tune
with the Landscape of the society does not always see the need for any Rod of Correction. What about the alternatives of Counseling, Demerits, Detentions, Suspensions,and finally Expulsion, these are the modern forms of dealing with kids who might not necessarily be a bad egg, but just as their adult parent or teachers do , “Might be having underlying issues’, that could need
attention and could be corrected with counseling or better supervision.
On the other hand , there is no basis of argument that if you don’t whip a kid they will turn out to be Criminals, that is though an argument for another subject. I do however agree that we need to bring back Corporal Punishment in our Criminal System, Heng dem if they deserve it, and this includes Predators who abuse our kids(including Priests if guilty), Murderers, and those who Steal and rob from the poor including Government Officials. God Bless Belize and Solidarity
forever,together we stand divided we fall.
Belize is a good country,where Belizeans can excercise their speech of freedom, I am agreement that corporal punishment should be abolish but there must be some other sort of punishment in our schools, e.g there is a certain teacher in Bullet tree village in cayo that really abuse her studients without mercy, yet not even the principal can do anything about it, she abuses children of parents that not even know they have a right, yet I have witness parents and students verbally abuse teachers without mercy,so government and BNTU have to sit and discuss this togheter for the benefit of all.
There most be some charges against teachers that physically abuses children and punishment for children and parents that does the same to teachers.Proverbs 13:24 He who spares the rod hates his son, but he loves him is careful to discipline him
Once again politicians forget to do the right thing. The is not the first time it happens the PUP did this a millions time too with regards to trying to remove St Francis Manager by force, appointing a Director for the Sugar Industry to carry out their agenda. The people protested and were beaten by police. They just appointed without consulting or providing alternative means. It appears to be that this Minister did not learn the lesson. You constructive criticism is always taught in school. You criticize but you should always come up with some examples or ways to solve that problem.
I think that PAtrick faber is yet one of the worst ministers EVER! I guess he cant see how belize is getting with crimes and yet he want to remove corporal punishment out of the classroom. The classroom is where a child spends more of their life. Many times the parents does have time for then because of their busy work schelude and that’s where the role of disipline is school comes in.
Patrick, start thinking like a man. You always wanted the position now u cant handle it. It’s best that we had left Mr. Hyde and the PUP’s in
Jasmin: Corporal punish doesn’t reduce crime. That has been proven a long time ago. Developed nations have gotten rid of that a long time ago. Teachers are not babysitter they are professional paid to teach anything but how to raise a child. That is the soul responsibility of the parent. Teacher’s can guide but parents is the one that will execute the plan. Teachers are not guardians.
I work in the school system in America and I wish that they would say that there could be some type of physical discipline in school. The students of today are becoming so ridiculous that they feel that they can be both physically and verbally abusive to any adults. We as adults have to watch how we speak to the students but it’s okay for the students to speak to us in any manner. I am from the old school and I was brought up to respect my elders. If you all stray from the concept of what our belief system was and is, then we are doing an injustice to our younger generation in Belize. DO NOT PICK UP THE AMERICAN WAY OF DOING THINGS OR YOU ALL WILL BE BUILDING A LOT MORE JAIL CELLS FOR OUR CHILDREN IN BELIZE.
i think that them changing stuff like these are diversion tactics, while they suck out our little bit of money with their lois young barrow from BTL
I think that the leaders of belize are doing the right thing.REMOVE CORPORAL PUNISHMENT.are the belizeans teachers on DRUGS?saying we want to keep corporal punishment?C.P on scars childeren,and should have no place in schools. what do this teachers get every time they bring such punishment to children in schools?sounds like they enjoy so much the pain they cause on this young kids that they dont want corporal punishment to be removed,i want through that crap growing up in my town in belize while in schools.if my child was goin to school in belize,i would let every dam teacher know-you put a hand on my son/girl u better run cause i will hunt you down and bring some CORPORAL PUNISHMENT ON YOU TEACHER!thats how i feel about it.
I have two middle school kids that attend us schools,i don’t think we should adopt us school system because my kids come home and tell me that the other kids swearing at the teachers and get up there faces and fights the other kids and they are scared,it start from the home because my kids don’t curse and they respect their elders because thats what i was brought up to do and to respect yourself and you don’t have to abuse your kids to teach them. We get caught up in work and keeping up with the JONESes that we forget about the values we are suppose to be passing on to our kids and the teachers are not babysitters and the time they spend punishing your kids for times you spend working on making sure your house have flat screen tv and leather furniture etc-etc,you get, the kids are missing out on the education for them and the other students and all kids are not born geniuses. Standup people take responsible for your kids and get involve with your kids and help the kids have a better future than ours. Thank you for reading. God Bless Belize and we will keep praying for positive changes for our Government, hopefully in the near future. I miss George Price, FAST DON’T MEAN BETTER. God HELP THE BELIZE PEOPLE.
I also teach in the US and I agree with Lady Hollywood….I am glad I was raised with the discipline and manners that I was taught as a child from teachers in belize and, my parents as well…..The more countries that follow AMERICA’s PERMISSIVE & DEMOCRATIC WAYS, the MORE PROBLEMS THEY WILL HAVE TO FACE….LEAVE THE TEACHERS IN BELIZE ALONE….ONLY THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE FACING…I tell you this, Belizeans….If you saw and knew what goes on in the classrooms here….you would think twice, before following AMERICA’s VIEWS on HOW TO TEACH & RAISE OUR KIDS. Please don’t do it!!!!
P.S.
Three years ago, while walking the streets of Belize…my then, 12 year-old daughter said to me, “mommy, even the street kids have manners in Belize.” She is not used to walking down the street and hearing the youths saying “good morning, good-afternoon, or good-evening. Here in the US, the grown-ups hardly greet you, much less their children. I REPEAT DO NOT FOLLOW THE US SCHOOL SYSTEM…DISCIPLINE HERE IS LOST, EVEN PARENTS HAVE TO BE CAREFUL IN HOW THEY DISCIPLINE THEIR CHILDREN. ANY CHILD CAN CALL THE POLICE HAVE THEIR PARENTS ARRESTED & CHARGES FILED BY THE POLICE AGAINST THEM!!!! By the grace of God, I have not been faced with that situation, and my children knows I am from the old school….”It takes a Village to Raise a Child.” WE NEED the TEACHERS to help parents in that area…. if you insist on going against the teachers, you must be ready to face the terrible consequences!!!!
let me give you guys a clear example of the the stupidness that this bill will bring to our teachers, let alone the education system. i’m the son of a teacher who has been in that profession for nearly 30 years. And i’m damn proud of her. recently, last week to be exact, a child in her class was asked to pull out his text book so they could review some time tables as part of their math class. The child that was asked, blatantly replied; and i quote: “F…….. YOU, TEACHER… i no wan tek out my book.” her class came to an utter silence in amazement of what just happened. Caught off guard, my mom replied, EXCUSE ME?? again the child replied “F…….. YOU TEACHER…. me no wan tek out my book. (mind you, this is a class of STD I children.
now let me tell you my mothers response to this situation. the other kids in her class kept saying…” teacher lash he and send he da di principal. ” my mom replied directly to the child and said these words to him… “You know what, i’m not going to punish him, i’m not even gonna send him to the principals office. i am hurt by what you have said but i am not going to stress myself over your misbehavior. i’m getting older, im tired of your rude behavior and will not stress my life over you anymore. ” At that moment the recess bell rung and she simply dismissed her class.
Let me tell you what happened next, although she refuses to tell me. I know my mother very well and i can imagine that she sat at her desk, covered her face and wept for a minute. i am positive that she felt hurt by that outburst. i know it. she has always gone the extra mile and half for her past students and many of her students can attest to this matter. As a matter of fact. Mr. John Briceno (leader of the Opposition) of Orange Walk was one of her pupil.
Needless to say, before recess break was over, she was called to the office. When she got there she was surprised that her entire class, including the child, were present infront of the principal. As she explained the situation to her principal and was being asked why she did not send that child to the office immediately; she simply replied the following: “I have sent this child several times to the office and all that the office has done is sat him in a corner for a few minutes and returned him to my classroom. i refuse to waste my time dealing with the same misbehavior and in turn see that nothing is being done!!!” That being said, the principal turned to the child and administered corporal punishment as the principal is authorized to do, and demanded that the child apologize to his teacher in front of his entire class. Don’t feel sorry Belize… feel angry!! Angry like I am for the insolence and misbehavior of our present children. Grounding a child or giving them a TIME OUT!!, does not work… Again… IT DOES NOT WORK. Do you remember Belize, that if you did something like this, you would get punished by 1) your teacher 2) your principal and 3) most definitely by your parents when you got home. Hence, you knew the consequences of your actions and did what was right.
I will return to you in a few more days after i speak to my mother another time and ask of the childs current behaviour…if it has improved or not!!!
I cannot believe that I am saying this, having received corporal punishment while I was in shool in Belize. I thought that because of it I turned out ok, but maybe not, it could have been the stern hands of my parents and teachers who had high expectations of me, and I felt obligated to be the best I could be. I am now teaching in an American school in Europe and we do NOT allow corporal punishment. I now firmly believe that it is not necessary..You can discipline a child without beating him, as a matter of fact other alternatives are more effective. I give students, lunch, or break detention and I can tell you it works 90% of the time to deter the behavior..Most students HATE to lose their social time wit friends not to mention having lunch in my room while they listern to this “old lady” talking to them about life, expectations, behavior and other “ancient” principles of conducting oneself respectfully.
Corporal punishment is one of the foundations that our school system was built upon. Taking it out will lead to chaos. We can use the American high school system as a living example of how our school system will be without corporal punishment. Many students in America has no respect for themselves and for teachers because of the lack or corporal punishment.
The previous government has taken a lot from our society, please don’t take away this from our students and kids. For many students school is the only form of discipline and order they receive in life, taking this away from them is like tossing them to the streets. The educational system duty is to ensure that every child receive the proper education they need for growth, life, and this includes a child’s behavior. Its not time to compromise what we believe in, because the safety and life of our children are involved.
The country of Belize has changed so much to be like other countries. We are not Americans, We are not Jamaicans and We are Belizeans. Stick to the values and beliefs that this country was built on. Taking out corporal punishment can cause a lot of damage to our society, and since it involve our children we shouldn’t take it lightly.
I am doing a debate of this in my class tomorrow at SJCJC. i never wouild have thought to give this issue any of my attention but now that i have, it seems to be very important. First of all i am not for politics so what i say is not influenced but only oppinionated. Mr. Faber has not proven himself as minister of education, to me at least. He is too ignorant and doesn’t speak intelligently as a minister should but this is beyond the point. I believe that corporal punishment should not be abolished. it is just within these recent years that the government is trying to change this law. what i think it is, is that Belize is always internationally influenced. while it may not be all negative, issues such as abolishing corporal punishment is just a “copy cat” of the states. If they want to abolish corporalo punishment might as well they fight for the implementation of other laws such as Gay rights ect. But would the govn’t fight for gays? No! why? because its not in our culture to fight for such things so why must we change disciplinary actions such as corporal punishment just because we see it happening arounfd the world? although many may argue that this form of discipline is violating the Convention on the Rights of Children, which was signed in 1990, this should not over rule the Education rule of 1972 which makes corporal punishment lawful. Our teachers act as ” Loco parentis” which is latin for ” in place of a parent”. a teacher is a person who assumes parental rights and duties for a minor. other forms of corporal punishment such as sending the child out side, or righting names on a paper 200 times or facing the wall deprives him or her of the lesson being taught in school. another form of corporal punishment such as detention after school for an hour without any parental agreement, can lead to danger of a child who may have to walk home after school, and you know these violent times; its not safe. anyways, assumptions won’t get anywhere, therefore we should keep corporal punishment in the schools so that a matter can be dealt with as soon as it arrises and it does not interfare with class time.
thanks for viewing my opinion
hi 2 all from nova scotia , canada !!!! there r many good points on both sides o this topic & with merrit 2 both also !! there r also not so good points on both sides !! canada & the us say not 2 CP y’r children but when we want lower gas/oil prices join our ARMED FORCES & u can inforce necessary force 2 an extent of which they kill – men – wemon – children ( young & old alike !! ) !!!! as a people of our blue planet we must find what is correct for our selves , within our own laws & choose with wisdom , with what we have 2 work with , when we can , for ourselves !! whether a dictatorship or diplomatic society – rules r in place & not all work 4 t out come one wants . society is 2 young 2 have it together on a worldly basis so untill another 300-400 years pass – here we r !!!!! thanks
I really dont understand why anyone would want to keep CP in schools. Our children go to school to LEARN. What are we teaching our children if the consequences of bad behavior is physical harm? We are teaching them that it is OK to cause physical harm to someone if they do something you dont like. We are also teaching them that it is OK to be hit when you say or do something that upsets someone else. Now, do you wonder why there is so much domestic violence in Belize? Woman does something her boyfriend or partner doesnt like and gets hit and she thinks she “must have deserved it”. And the husband or boyfriend is justified because that is how he has learned to behave from when he was little. This is not an appropriate consequence to bad action. Should your boss beat you when you screw up? Should you get lashed when you break a traffic law? This is not an appropriate consequence in adult life so why do we think it is ok to do to children? Dicipline must be present in classrooms to keep order but there are many other ways to go about it, they may take some creative thinking and a little more effort than CP but we owe it to the kids to teach them behavior that will benefit in the future.