‘To lash or not to lash?’ Senators discuss corporal punishment
Parliamentarians from both sides of the House got into feisty debate over corporal punishment last Friday. While the debate in the Senate was less emotional, Senators from across the aisle raised concerns about the removal of corporal punishment in the classrooms and sided with the union asking for more time to put in place an alternative to ensure discipline. News Five’s Jose Sanchez followed the Senate meeting in Belmopan.
Jose Sanchez, Reporting
Over a thousand teacher’s from North to South marched at the steps of the House of Representatives on Friday to display their displeasure and anger with the amendments to the Education Bill put forward by Minister Patrick Faber. To whip or not to whip in the classroom was the contentious question Friday and at today’s Senate meeting. Senator Godwin Hulse illustrated his viewpoint with recollections from the classroom.
Godwin Hulse, Senator
Godwin Hulse
“There were all sorts of whippings like some of the nuns who would catch you in those days from St. Ignatius for tearing past the classroom and pop something on you. But there were also the good ones who didn’t apply that kind of penalty and there’s a particular nun who stood out. What she did was she would put you to sit down during recess and put you to write lines. That is where I learnt to write about not being intoxicated with the exuberance of my own verbosity and the meaning thereof too because I wrote verbosity a hundred times, exuberance a hundred times, intoxicated a hundred times so I also learned penmanship. This argument will not finish with this bill. My wife has taught for almost forty years and she says that in the school, in primary school and elementary school she neva had to enforce dah kind ah discipline and where she is in Pallotti and high school worse and she never demeritted because everybody hear ih heavy foot di come and dehn seh miss di come so dehn straighten right up cause she firm like steel; maybe that is classroom management. Sometimes perhaps you prefer the teacher weh lash than di one weh firm like steel. I noh know. But for purposes of di bill and for the enhancement of our nation, we have decided to eliminate it. So, as my colleague said, corporal punishment refers to anything done to a child for the purpose of punishing that child; whether or not there are other reasons for doing it, which apart from any justification would constitute battery.”
Carolyn Trench Sandiford
Carolyn Trench Sandiford, Senator
“There are five features in my mind that one has to look at for a successful education system; one, that it is affordable; that it available; that it is accessible; that there is equity in the quality and that it is relevant to the needs of our country. I think most of the general framework for that is encompassed in the bill and it does carve out a role for stakeholders, the role for the ministry, the role of the teacher, the role of the child, the minimally in some way the role of the parent.”
The National Trade Union Congress of Belize’s representative, Paul Perriott, spoke of more amendments to the bill.
Paul Perriott, N.T.U.C.B.
“Each managing authority as I have said before preschools, primary, secondary and tertiary level be given the privileged right to make up their own rules, principles and measure for promoting good behavior and discipline. We recommend that this section 51 (1) be reworded to read “The Ministry of Education, in consultation with education partners including managing authorities and the union, develop policy guidelines for school discipline including corporal punishment. We watched the teachers protesting outside of the National Assembly on Friday. I want to point out that those teachers aren’t crazy. They come from the same breed as us in this House. They are the educators of our children and I point out again that they have the right to protest. We must stand with the teacher’s union in that the void that will be left when it is removed with this bill, and giving it the six months time for the recommendations to come forward is not sufficient time. we stand with them that the bill should not be passed through until are these recommendations and policies are put in place and teachers are able to go through the proper training to enable them to deal with changes. I want to mention to everyone that discipline begins at home.”
Godwin Hulse
“The act makes provision for reasonable force against a student and it says if you use that reasonable force, it’s not deemed to be corporal punishment. You could use it if a child is disrupting good order and discipline at the school or among other students receiving education at the school whether during a teaching session or otherwise. Now I will not stop here today and interpret that, but simply say to those charged with coming up with these alternate methods, could you please be very clear and specific as to what you mean by reasonable force which is not deemed corporal punishment.”
Reporting for News Five, Jose Sanchez.
I am a Belizean and also a teacher in the US. The teachers in Belize have every right to disipline the students, but there is a difference between discipline and abuse. In America, most of the students are rude and disrespectful…there are really no discipline in the school system here, giving a child time out is not working…as time goes on, they are getting worse. As you all debate on the discipline issue, I want you to remember that “It Takes a Village To Raise a Child.” Most of my values and discipline I learned as a child cxame from my parents and the teachers in Belize. When I came to America, the first week of school, I can remember telling my mom how rude the students were in school. It was a culture shock in many ways, one that I had to get use to. Customary greetings such as good-morning, good-afternoon, etc. is uncommon to hear from the adults, much less the students. Excuse me, please, thank-you, words like these are hardly used in the US. The educational system in BZ, IT IS BY FAR DEFINITELY SUPERIOR!!!! I KNOW SOME TEACHERS ARE CRUEL & ABUSIVE. THESE TEACHERS SHOULD BE DEALT WITH!!! Most people from any Caribbean country here in the US can tell you that the educational system back home, exceed standards, far and above those in the US.
I am pleading with you, DO NOT FOLLOW THE US SCHOOL SYSTEM…it is too permissive, and lacks effective DISCIPLINE!!!!
Original woman, I work in the school system and I wrote something similar yesterday. They think that they are doing something great for the kids but as I said if they remove the corporal punishment they will be doing those students a disservice. If the teachers are just plain abusive then as you said, they should be dealt with. I have lived in America for 30 years and the way the students are today, they are just plain ignorant and disrespectful and they love to defy authority.
I am a mother of two kids, and if any teacher or anyone put a hand on my kids its not going to be nice at all. When I was in school I got beatings for taking up for myself or for a low grade and the beatings still didn’t help me learn anything. I when to high school and learn more than I ever did at grade school. I teach my kids if anyone does them wrong go to the teacher and if they don’t do anything about it, the next when it happens again, I tell them to take up for themselves. No one is going to hit my kids. The kids don’t need beating, maybe some of the teachers need it. The teachers should take their time with the kids and make sure they get the work done and know how to do ir right. Than moving on to the next subject fast. In high school my teachers use to stay after class with me just so I could do the work. Maybe thats what the teachers should try, one could know if a child is doing bad in school work, he or she grades it. So I say no beatings not my kids or anyother kids.
i believe in a child should get punished at school. not sever but tolerable punishment. leaving a child to believe that a teacher has no kind of authority over them is setting up Belize to be the next “Columbine”. I’m telling no respect for teachers equals not respect for anyone in authority.
Tashy, while I agree that kids should not be beaten for failing or standing up for one’s rights, if they are rude, disrespectful to the teacher, other students or property, then I believe it is in order…the problem is that then the students go home and pretend to be innocent, tell the parents a whole sob story, and then the parents get angry and go raise hell.
I know some kids tell lies so as does teacher and parents or any grown person. but its about the beatings in school some teachers take it too far,and before any happen to my kids or anyother kids, best not do it. One can let the child do some community or something like that. I had one teacher beat me so bad it broke my hand open, and all I could think about at the time was to take that wip away and beat her with it. I hated her. this happen because I took up for myself. not because i was being rude or bad. And why do teachers have to beat kids for not know or get a work done right. if the kid did it wrong the teacher maybe she is not doing her job good enough. I am just saying. The teacher should let the kids beat them with those wips and feels how it feels first.
Tashy if you say that you tell you children to take up for themselves….because no one is gonna hit your kids….and maybe some teachers need a beating….then you say if they (your kids) are rude, you believe it is in order….Exactly what is in order??? You sound like the type of parent that have already gone, or would go to school and want to fight a teacher on account of what your kids tell you…., especially since you acknowledge that, “…the problem is that the students go home and pretend to be innocent….”
Lady Hollywood and lisa, sometimes experience is the best teacher….seems like a lot of Belizeans in Belize don’t know how much value and superior they are in terms of the present educational system that is already in place.
For those who don’t know the,Columbine incident occurred when a student brought a semi-automatic rifle to a school (named Columbine) and killed at least a dozen or more students and teachers). this is just one of many incidents that happens here in the US…even with the metal detectors, to prevent students from bringing in weapons, they still find a way.
I made a mistake just now, I quoted Tashy on something she did not say…for that I apologize.
Menoh you are the one who said some kids go home and pretend to be innocent, that is true, on the other hand, you are correct too Tashy when you say some teachers, parents & any grownup can lie aso. The question is should corporal punishment remain or be removed in the school system of Belize, and while I agree that SOME TEACHERS ARE ABUSIVE, I believe more of them are just strict, as they should be. The bible says, spare not the rod and spoil the child…
I never looked at the lashings in the schools as coporal punishment. I think those teachers who beat the students severly are the ones giving corporal punishment. This should definitely be stopped!! But taking away complete authorIty from the teachers in the classrooms, will be a GRAVE MISTAKE. Just be prepared to eventually have metal detectors in your school buildings, to check students for guns and knives….because that’s the next step….as well as a result in shortage of effective and committed teachers within the school system.
Teachers are human beings too, they have feelings and need support too. If they are made to feel as if no one cares about their feelings, YOU WILL LOOSE THEM!!! If things continue as they are, students may eventually end up being taught by computers, or robots, because the teaching profession may become extinct!!!!
Since the begining of time every parent and culture have had their own ideas of how children should be raised and disapplined. I don’t think that will ever change. What needs to change is the ability of people in charge to recognize a physco personality and never let that person be in charge of a child. In school, out of school, in the home, in the legal system and etc. The adult that molest, beats, abuses and causes harm to any child should be restricked from contact with children, their own or any one elses. The sick minded person that selectivly selects a single child or a group of children to abuse. Weed out the abusers first then begin the processes of teaching.
Change has to start at the top by a qualified person. Then filter down throguh the whole system. Their are people that should be under oath to protect scildren, they are called mandated reporters. All teachers should become mandated reporters, if a child appears in school with signs of abuse from home, the parents need to be reported to the law and Social Services. Doctors should be required to be mandated reporters and etc. Children need protection not abuse from sick minded adults, no matter whom the abuser might be.
People need to realize that rights are not absolute. The rights of the child, the rights of the mother, the rights of the father all come with responsibilties. Teaching children in the home, school and society at large requires discipline. No one wants to abuse children, especially at school. Therefore parents need to work with the children and teachers so the children learn to have respect for authority figures. The general feeling I get from children these days is that they are entitled, they have rights. The problem with that mentality is that they are not aware of their role in having these rights. People the world over fight for the right to just survive. That’s what we need to teach the children. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. We must advocate discipline at home and at school. As parents we must teach children to respect the teachers and give the teachers the authority to TEACH and DISCIPLINE the children.
as a parent I was brought up by a single mother who taught us to respect our elders, and at the same time she taught us not to let anyone abuse us, that was 55 years ago, now I am a succesful single mother of 5 kids and I taught them the same values, respect for older persons, teachers, never take anything that does not belong to you, not even an eraser, Praise God so far I have never had a problem with my kids or their teachers, my children are grown up in the working force, teaching their children the same values,we need to go back to the ancient values, so it can be passed on from generation to generation,the world change as time goes by, modern thechnology replaces many things, but our christian values should never change.
You know what! This corporal punishment thing is getting out of hand. It is us the adults that is making a big fuss over it. The children are listening and the way we are ranting and raving they are getting the impression that the teachers can not do them zip if they are being disrespectful etc.
We should be explaining to them that while the teacher will not be able to spank them there will be other means of discipline… time out away from fun activities, stay for half an hour after classes and finish work, clean the classroom, do chores for a week around the classroom, no recess just bathroom break, looses 10 points off a paper etc.
Just because the teachers can’t spank that does not mean that they do not have the right to discipline.
Be careful what the children hear you say or how they interpret it.
Good Luck Belize!
Original woman, no pun intended but please don’t try to put crap into the heads of our Belizean people because we watch American news too.Columbine happened because this kid (like most of the school shootings in America) was being bullied on an everyday basis and the school authorities turned a blind eye to it.Don’t see how beating up on a kid would’ve stopped that because most bullies do their dirty work where the authorities cannot see them.Like Tashy, i myself would never agree with a teacher hitting on my child.This whole world agrees with this crap about ( its takes a village to raise a child BS) but what we fail to realize is the village is also made up of human being that at times lose control.Good parent lead by example and not by fear so i don’t want no damn village to put fear in my child. Yes i do agree that the kids in the American school system are out of control but its because some of them are they’re going about it the wrong way.My kids are also in the American school system and guess what? They’re doing a great job.They have afterschool programs, they have a no bulling policy…they have counselors for each grades and the classes are not overcrowded.What Belize needs to do is to build more school and stop the overcrowding cause there is only one teacher per class and its too much for one person to handle.Whenever Belize decides to make kids their PRIORITY, you will see how much better of a country it will be.America have a “no child left behind’ policy, meaning that even if the kids are illegal etc.,they must be in school.Its against the law here for kids to be on the streets during school hours without a parent.You go downtown Belize city and the kids are infront of Brodies begging for a shilling.Come on now…and you’re worried about beating a child?Gone is the days when neighbors can hit your child so lets move forward and leave that behind.We adapted gangs and every other bad thing from America then we complain so why not the good things since we lost our own identity.I still say,no beating in schools because thats not the answer.If my child is to get hit,let me be the one to do the hitting.I use to listen to stories from old folks talking about the neighbors beating them and i have yet to see the humor in that .I use to beat the hell out of my kids when they were younger and i have many regrets now because one of them cannot get over the fear of me and reading Tashy’s story you can also feel her fear.Discipline starts in the house.Force parents to be more active in their kids lives.That might help.Hold them responsible for their kids actions and see how well behave their kids will be.