Debate centers on Senate amendments
The public consultations on the numerous amendments to the Belize Constitution got underway with vim and vigor to a respectable audience of members of the public, business persons, lawyers and legislators. While some of the proposed amendments got an early nod, there was much debate on others in particular the issue of the senate which while it stands to be expanded, its powers would be reduced. The proposal to vest petroleum and minerals to the government was similarly vigorously debated. News Five Kendra Griffith has a full report.
Kendra Griffith, Reporting
Before six p.m. on Wednesday Belize City residents began filing into the Holy Redeemer Parish Hall for the seventh in a series of public consultations on the proposed amendments to the constitution.
Some came in their party colours…
And others with signs…
Man #1
“I am here because I am supporting the people of Belize.”
…But most came to be heard and educated.
Woman #1
“We need to take an interest in what is happening in our country.”
Woman #2
“I don’t really understand what this amendment is all about, I just have a basic understanding and I don’t like what I understand and so it is for me to really hear both sides of the story and to see whether is some that will really benefit us as Belizeans or is something that is actually gonna take away some of our rights.”
Patrick Faber, Chair, Foreign Affairs and Constitution Cmte.
“I am hoping to see a lot of Belizeans out here voicing their concerns from the city.”
Minister of Education, Patrick Faber, Chairs the Foreign Affairs and Constitution Committee responsible for the consultations. He says although the committee could have done a better job publicising the sessions, they have been fairly well attended.
Patrick Faber
“From the turnout so far we believe that we have had enough turnout and we have heard certainly a lot from the people on the streets and people in our constituencies to have a fair idea of where people want to go.”
Kendra Griffith
“What has the general feedback been like?”
Patrick Faber
“It has been positive for the most part for the majority of the amendments. As you know, from early on there were some major discontent with the preventative detention portion of the bill and so we decided very early to remove that portion of the bill. Apart from that though, there has been a lot of concern, a lot of discussion about the portion of the bill that seeks to vest the petroleum and mineral rights in the government and people of Belize. That has created a serious stir and a lot of discussion and tonight promises to be no different.”
“These changes are in an effort to try and ensure that some of the practices of the past, whether carried out by either party are not continued or are not duplicated or repeated.”
Five of the six committee members were present for the Belize City consultations: Faber, Minister of Governance Improvement, John Saldivar; Opposition Leader John Briceño, and Area Representatives: Nemencio Acosta and Francis Fonseca.
The process was simple: Crown Counsel Rondine Twist made presentations on each of the amendments with questions and comments to follow after every segment.
Much wasn’t said about the fourth amendment which seeks to institute a three-term limit on persons appointed as prime minister, except for it to be reduced to two. However, concerns were raised about amendment six: disqualifying a recalled member of the House from entering a by-election, and amendment seven.
Rondine Twist, Crown Counsel
“Amendment number seven is related. It proposes an amendment to a new section 59 (2)(f) and this is about when a member of the house must vacate his seat and it’s pretty much saying that a member of the house must vacate his seat if he has been recalled.”
Patrick Faber
“If people say a recall mechanism is something we want, them we put it in the constitution and then we allow for the legislation to be formulated afterwards.”
Godwin Hulse, Senator
“I am saying good amendment in the constitution, but do not prevent him from running. That disenfranchises him if he cannot run as a consequence of the petition.”
Lisa Shoman, Attorney
“Mr. Chairman you gave us an assurance that what should have been forthcoming was the type of recall mechanism that was being considered and I think had that been done you would have seen a greater spirit towards looking at it and towards deciding if this is what people want. For myself, let me tell you that I cannot support an amendment that asks me to accept on faith that you will pass some kind of law in the future.”
Jackie Marshalleck, President, Bar Association
“The Bar is not opposed to the concept of a recall, and that is stated in the paper, but you really must have that subsidiary legislation ready and prepared for review so that the two can be read together and that being said, I would ask that this particular amendment be shelved until such time as we can get that legislation and make an informed decision looking at the entire picture of how this is all going to work.”
Amendment 8 increased the number of senators from twelve to thirteen.
John Saldivar, Committee Member
“It also speaks to electing the president from outside the senate and the key change here is delivering on the United Democratic Party’s promise to place the senate in the control of non government senators: three from the opposition and four from non government organisations.”
Issues arose over who would choose the new senator for the N.G.O.s and also reignited the elected senate debate.
Patrick Faber
“The N.G.O. community has agreed to put it into the hands of a body called APAMO to conduct the election or the selection of this person.”
Anthony Sylvestre, Attorney
“You could have a situation where that non-governmental senator is a closeted member of the government and so you would have in this application a situation where nothing changes and that comes to the issue of whether really and truly in the true spirit of democracy wouldn’t it be better to have the senators elected by the people?”
Patrick Faber
“We could also ask if it would not be better if the bodies which select the senator do it in a transparent manner and try to get the best people in those positions.”
Henry Gordon, Activist
“You do not necessarily have to have an elected senate to begin with, but you have can have a proportional Senate, a senate based on proportional representation.”
Francis Fonseca, Committee Member
“As it relates to the Senate, we support and elected Senate. I think some of the extended powers, some of the additional powers being given to the Senate are very good additional powers, which I think all Belizeans can support. I think we should remember, however, that the referendum did take place and almost sixty percent of the people who voted in the referendum voted in favour of an elected senate. I do no not think that that should be ignored. I think that we should give due consideration to that.”
And when it came to the revisions to the powers of the Senate, Amendment 9, the discussions centred around the removal of its powers in approving the appointment of Justices and that Bills to alter Part two of the constitution would no longer be taken to that arm of government.
Jackie Marshalleck
“It means that if this goes through as it currently stands, after this once the House of Representatives says it’s a go to change the fundamental rights and freedoms, that’s the end of the it, there is no more commentary.”
Godwin Hulse
“The senate was placed in the middle to ensure that the judiciary, when these people are appointed it is a fait accompli and there shall be no mess with that branch of the government. That is the reason and so when we remove that, I am hoping and suggesting that another transparent layer be placed in between to ensure that we do not return to the days of Justice Sosa.”
Murphy McLaren
“To take away that particular power from the Senate, I strongly believe means that the political parties will be having their own private motives as to how to manipulate themselves around the judiciary.”
The sparks were kept to a minimum throughout the remaining proposals… but then it came time to tackle the amendment number three, which seeks to change section seventeen of the constitution to vest all petroleum and minerals found in the country to the government and people of Belize.
Rondine Twist
“All rights in and ownership of petroleum, minerals and accompanying substances found anywhere on or under the territory or Belize vests in the government and shall be deemed always to have been so vested. The government can by contract give part or all of these rights to any person or company.”
That last line was the first bone of contention.
Concerned Citizen
“The resources are supposed to belong to the government on behalf of the people, but then you are going to take it and hand it over to oil companies or oil corporations. That’s privatisation once again.”
Godwin Hulse
“At what point do we surrender that property and what compensation do we get at that point of surrender? So when do we lose ownership of the oil? Is it at the well head? Is it at when it reach big creek? Is it when they find it?”
Bill Lindo
“The oil belongs to the people of Belize in perpetuity, you cannot give title to no foreign big oil. That is what this is here for, for big oil. They will come and tell you. dehn noh wah come unless you give them this. Dat dah lie man. Mek dehn noh come den. Mek dehn lef it deh. If dehn noh want it lef it.”
John Saldivar
“Title means title to the oil so that you can go to the oil market and say this oil is mine, I have the right to sell it. Otherwise if you cannot say that to the person who is exploiting the oil, how can he go to market and say I am selling this oil if he doesn’t have title to the oil?”
Ambrose Tillett
“We understand the oil company’s need to have some contract for selling or marketing the oil, which is what Godwin had suggested. You own the oil, Belize own the oil, the government can enter into a contract for exploration, for production and for marketing. So the contract that a company gets is to market Belize oil that Belize own. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Why do you need to get title for the reserves?”
Surprisingly, the issue of access to the courts was not that big of a factor.
Rondine Twist
“Individual property owners do not have a constitutional right to compensation for any petroleum or minerals located under their land and consequently, they do not have a right of access to the courts in relation to any petroleum or minerals located on or under their land.”
Anthony Sylvestre
“Under the petroleum act that landowner has a right to a royalty, but as the minister was explaining this morning, you really can’t call it a right because since he does not own the petroleum, then it’s not a right for him to get the royalties. So to reconcile that, to be included in the constitution and proviso which says that whilst the petroleum and minerals are vested in the government of Belize, it’s a proviso that a private landowner has a right to a royalty.”
Patrick Faber
“There is nothing in the constitution that says that the government cannot later give royalties in an ordinary piece of legislation.”
Anthony Sylvestre
“So it will be left up to discretion of the government of the day?”
Patrick Faber
“A lot of things are left up to the discretion of the government. And here we go again you see. We have to have confidence and trust in our government.”
The arguments wrapped up a little after ten that night. The next public consultation takes place next week in Belmopan. Kendra Griffith reporting for News Five.
After the Belmopan consultations, the Committee will meet to deliberate on the oral and written feedback and then determine in what format the proposals should go back to the House, the Senate and finally to the Governor General for approval.
